Band Question for the Nightmare and others

[Chris Halen]

OK, everyone knows that I have been in 50 gazillion bands, including The Nightmare (or The Vampire Theatre in my case)...but believe it or not, this is a first for me.

I came to this message board because I know my bandmates don't come here.

I am playing bass in my dream band (creative speaking...I finally gave up on "image" and decided that all that matters is the songwriting) and for the first time ever, there is drama, but I am not in the center of it.

My keyboardist almost quit but then spent the weekend listening to our 4 tracks, and decided he would be a fool to leave the band. But...he feels he can't work with our singer anymore. So, the band is forced to make a choice...go with the keyboardist or the singer. We are having a meeting tonight (minus the singer) to discuss this.

Musically, we feel that we can be one of the best bands in this area as we are doing something that NO ONE in this town is doing, but people will love it. People who have heard us have claimed us to be a mix of The Cure, The Cars, The Pretenders, and No Doubt. The 80's meet the 2000's. Bittersweet somber meets upbeat fun. Hey, The Cure can do "Love Song" and "Killing an Arab" so the mix works. Personally, I feel that our keyboardist is the captain steering the ship. I don't want to lose that. It's great not being the captain for once (except for the biz side...my speciality...except for bars in Cicero...LOL), so I don't want to lose the captain.

So...anyone ever face this? I KNOW that Lord Z has had to face this. What is the best way to handle it, and how do you tell the person who isn't the one to stay?

ughhhhhhh!!!! Why can't music be the centerpiece? Oh wait...drama is what makes music. hehe.

[Zadoc]

Guest-Chris said:

I came to this message board because I know my bandmates don't come here.

Hehe...I don't know what to really think of that...

I am playing bass in my dream band (creative speaking...I finally gave up on "image" and decided that all that matters is the songwriting)

Here, I somewhat disagree. Image isn't everything, but it is important. Take a look at even an artist like Meatloaf. Not at all an attractive guy, but the 'image' of his enthusiasm when performing is legendary. You know you're watching a 'rock star' and not just the guy that waits tables during the day.

and for the first time ever, there is drama, but I am not in the center of it.

Most of the time neither was I.

My keyboardist almost quit but then spent the weekend listening to our 4 tracks, and decided he would be a fool to leave the band. But...he feels he can't work with our singer anymore. So, the band is forced to make a choice...go with the keyboardist or the singer.

Well, here's where it gets tricky. Most people would be more inclined to sway with which ever member is more of the 'talented asset' in the band. I even made that mistake once too.

However, you have to look at things logically. The wisest choice to make depends on whether a)Is it your singer who's acting unreasonable, and therefore chasing your keyboardist out? Or b)is it your keyboardist who is acting unreasonable and not able to work well with others?

I've had to experience both scenarios in the past few years. In scenario a: One of our former drummers could not work any longer with our bass player. The bass player wasn't cutting the mustard talent wise and was difficult to work with due to not being able to take constructive criticsm well. In this case, I chose wisely and let our bass player go.

In scenario b), I think be all know who this one relates to, our guitar player was the sour apple. This individual cost me many other talented musicians in the long run. Many other bandmates quit due to their unwillingness to work with him. Unfortunately, due to his talent, I tried to hang on to him for longer than I should of. I lost a few really good musicians over it, delaying the inevitable.

We are having a meeting tonight (minus the singer) to discuss this.

I'm curious as to why 'without the singer'? Seems to me the most logical way would be to sit everyone down (singer and keyboardist included) and try to figure out a solution. In my experience, firing the singer after everyone has 'conspired' in a meeting without him could be very bad.

Personally, I feel that our keyboardist is the captain steering the ship. I don't want to lose that. It's great not being the captain for once (except for the biz side...my speciality...except for bars in Cicero...LOL), so I don't want to lose the captain.

Depends on whether he's the one causing the problems. It's hard to be truthful with oneself when you've got a great talent on board. Our former guitarist was an immense talent and also lent quite a good amount of showmanship and imagery to the Nightmare, but was driving lots of other good musicians away in the process due to his drug habits, violent tantrums, dishonesty, and sexual misconduct.

So...anyone ever face this? I KNOW that Lord Z has had to face this.

Too many times for my liking.

What is the best way to handle it, and how do you tell the person who isn't the one to stay?

Well, for starters, ask the other guys in the band (minus the singer and keyboardist in question) how they honestly feel about working with both of them. Leave talent and skill towards the back burner, and focus in more on what kind of working partners each of them are.

Some one that's causing problems now and has an ability to drive away musicians, is apt to drive more future and potential musicians away as well. It''s best to cut the problem maker out now before any more damage is caused, regardless of how talented they may be.

The first step always is try to be diplomatic on both sides. Try and see if your singer and keyboardist can compromise on whatever differences they may have.

If that fails, and you still are faced with losing one or the other, honestly evaluate which member is more important and which one is causing the rift. A problematic member isn't bound to change his/her ways and may likely be a liability when trying to get them to work with other musicians in the future.

ughhhhhhh!!!! Why can't music be the centerpiece? Oh wait...drama is what makes music. hehe.

Unfortunately, many creative types are also plagued with social problems. It's something you're bound to run into from time to time.

Good luck with your situation.

[ChrisHalen]

Well, I agree with you on image. I think I was misunderstood. I used to put image first, and then songwriting. Now it's...let's write great songs and then worry about image. No one sees you in the rehearsal room. That's what I meant. I can remember some old bands I was in where we would discuss clothing before the music. And Meatloaf is a perfect example. Great singer, but yes...without the opera look...well, it's a fat guy singing.

As for the current situation...last night I met with the guitarist and keyboardist. Still trying to reach the drummer and get his opinion. I am standing by the keyboardist for musical reasons, and because I feel that the singers attitude will conflict with mine in the long run. The guitarist also shares my view. As for the drummer, he may walk with the singer...but well, if that happens, it probably would of happened in the long run anyways. Still trying to reach him (he's working overtime this week getting some tv thing going), but I think he will stay with us. Although a part of me feels he may walk.

And as I thought back...I was wrong to my original statement. I had been thru this once before when a bassist told me that if the singer stayed, he walked. In that case...there was no attitude from either side. It was just a case of a bad singer. So, I fired the singer...and the bassist still quit. But, in the long run, it was ok. The replacements were better matches.

For this deal...one of two things will happen. We move on replacing the singer...or we move on replacing the singer and the drummer. Once I get word back from the drummer, I will keep ya all posted.

Thanks for the advice...I knew you would understand the situation. Comes with the territory of a 10 year plus band that has had over 30 members in it ;D

But...you survive...and still keep on rockin...

[Zadoc]

About images, trust me...I still do and always will believe that image is secondary, but yes, it is essential to sell your product. Think of a tangible product like a CD or a record, sometimes people buy them (or at least it catches the attention) just because of the album artwork. But, again, without talented songwriting your image is wasted...same thing goes for live...people will turn their heads back to their drinks if the music sucks.

Back to your situation - the key thing you posted this time is:

...because I feel that the singers attitude will conflict with mine in the long run.

That should be enough of a danger sign to help you make the right decision.

If you lose your drummer in the process, it might be for the better. (Plus you can still use a drum machine to rehearse with while waiting for your next drummer to come along :-))

Again, good luck and hope everything turns out for the best.

Also good to see you finally got yourself an account here :-)

[ChrisHalen]

Yeah, well to answer back...I needed to get an account LOL.

Well, the singer has been let go, the drummer is staying.

We will see what happens.

Rock on Vamps!

[ChrisHalen]

Oh yeah...she didn't take it too well. Many four letter words were used.